New FireArm Application

Discuss the good and the bad of licencing and re-licencing your firearms

Postby crimefree » Mon, 2010-01-18 13:35

Patrick wrote:Crimefree, I cant disagree with anything you are saying. I am new to the Act and am here to find out why nothing has been done.

Isn’t it possible to get all of the Gun Associations/Groups/Collectors together to fight against this in the same way GFSA does? surely with all the members combined in these groups that pay monthly/yearly fees could contribute a percentage of that to wards propaganda and such things?

Couldn’t someone such SAGA organise a system where funding from all associations goes into this? This type of program could only be taken on by a dedicated pro firearms group with members that contribute in funding and assistance where possible.

Why cant we get all of us together to fight this?


You are so right that is what should have been done and still should be done.

My opinion

Getting the various groups together has failed because they insist on petty turf wars and promotion of their interest only. ie collectors are only interested in collecting and to hell with anyone else same goes for sports shooters, hunters.....

That and apathy from members telling their organisations what they want. Under such circumstances organisation management must guess and more often than not get it wrong.

So what happens members get annoyed and leave. management says gosh! I wonder why? Oh well just another unhappy camper lets carry on the others are still here and support what we are doing.

SAGA from a high of 30,000 members now has less than 5000 and still does not realise it is doing something wrong. One person telling them is a disgruntled nuisance. Believe me I have told them on many occasions and pointed out the errors of their accept and comply stance we can appease government and make the FCA better. But I must be the only one and I am no longer a member.

The problem is to remove the petty infighting and stupidity of directly promoting firearms to a market share that can be considered insignificant and getting smaller by the day.

Consider that their potential market is 30..40% of the total population.

What is known is that there is a tremendous amount of market resistance to firearms. That resistance consists of fear and hate for this product so much so that the majority of this potential market will demand firearms be banned.

Instead of reducing market resistance these organisation want to instead promote firearms or there interest. ie more guns in peoples hands means less crime.... Collectors are law abiding citizens and need to have many guns. Shooting is the safest sport... Might be a fact but it sure as hell will not get one sale to anyone who fears or hates guns even in the slightest. So who are they selling to. The phrase preaching to the converted comes to mind.

Instead there is common ground between firearm owners and the public. That common ground is safety, public safety. The public needs to know that gun owners are not a danger to them and guns do not present a danger. Criminals sure as hell do.

Note I have not used legal, illegal, licensed or any other box fools want to try and place firearm owners in, in the hope of obtaining some sort of sympathy vote from the public or government. Not ever going to happen. Nor are the public ever going to side with people they fear because they have guns which is the source of that fear.

Guns are not the problem, criminals are and while government forces the very willing SAPS to do easy work and look good by chasing the only guns they can get, crime is never going to decrease.

Firearm organisations and firearm owners need to promote public safety not guns.

Every gun control organisation is a public safety organisation.

You fight propaganda by denying your opposition their modus operandi not their objective.
"Two memorials remain today at Thermoplylae. Upon the modern one is engraved his response to Xerxes' demand that the Spartans lay down their arms. Leonidas' reply was two words, Molon Labe. 'Come and get them'."
crimefree
 
Posts: 122
Joined: Fri, 2006-02-03 09:26
Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

Postby crimefree » Thu, 2010-02-25 12:45

Patrick wrote:Crimefree, I cant disagree with anything you are saying. I am new to the Act and am here to find out why nothing has been done.

Isn’t it possible to get all of the Gun Associations/Groups/Collectors together to fight against this in the same way GFSA does? surely with all the members combined in these groups that pay monthly/yearly fees could contribute a percentage of that to wards propaganda and such things?

Couldn’t someone such SAGA organise a system where funding from all associations goes into this? This type of program could only be taken on by a dedicated pro firearms group with members that contribute in funding and assistance where possible.

Why can't we get all of us together to fight this?


Because nobody wants to. Nobody thinks it is worth the effort or their time. Why is the question?

Firearm organisations are run by enthusiastic amateurs. Well meaning but foolish and naive in the extreme to politics, propaganda and how to fight effectively.

If there was a single person who knew in any organisation they would have had the sense to have rung the alarm bell 40 years ago.

9 years ago this was tried and failed, a few years ago another attempt was made and failed. Now we have a government directed co-operation "to fix the FCA" of a number of organisations including GFSA to which not one firearm organisation which has shown a willingness to fight was invited or even knew what was happening. They are all appeasement organisations who have shown a willingness to work with the SAPS.

They will discuss what to give away in order to "win" with people who have no honour, have no compassion and have no respect not even for the lives they are willing to sacrifice in order to get what they want.

Why?

Because they are enthusiastic amateurs who are arrogant and foolish enough to think they know best. They will not listen to advice they believe is bullshit. They will not figure out why they have failed so far because they do not examine history or learn from it. Nor will they examine the oppositions strengths and weaknesses to see how they can turn this about or their own strengths and weakness.

It goes without saying that they are setting themselves up for failure but bullshitting everyone they are doing a great job. Change them or get rid of them or we are doomed.

They will sit and discuss how to promote firearm ownership to an ever decreasing number and not care one bit how many of their own members suffer or have guns ripped from their hands as long as they think the SAPS will show them favour because they are good boys and have complied with every request. Collectors management started a compulsory war chest for fighting legislation. Well you can guess who's guns they want to save.

Think I am crazy? SAHunters own survey showed 15% of their own members ADMITTED to not relicencing. SAHunters are now discussing with the SAPS to drop their case.

They have publicly with Collectors said "You had your chance, if you did not relicence, tough" - we don't care. SAGA said much the same. There are 900,000 waiting for that axe to fall. And we continue to bitch about delays and speeding up the FCA because we what to fix it. Where did that utterly stupid and irresponsible idea come from? From firearm organisations, not firearm owners.

SAGA and other organisations like SAhunt and collectors have just entered co-operative "negotiations" polite but incorrect with the SAPS as a member of an invited organisation which includes GFSA. Not one organisation that had ever shown opposition to the FCA was invited or even knew about it. Did SAGA, collectors, hunters or others complain or refuse to join - NO. Why? Because they don't want the nice apple cart they have built to save their own guns upset. I have been told that I am destroying any chance they have..... Yeah! right! I see it do others?

If you want to help - remember it is the members who control any organisation. If they don't ask they don't get. Who is asking, who is demanding because if they don't I can promise they will lose.

This is OUR fight and it cannot be subcontracted to those who don't care and have demonstrated they don't care. Make them care of remove them, they are no good for firearm owners survival. Better ensure they always care as well. ;-)

Go read March Magnum Trail Talk to get a small view of what is here.

My letter to magnum which will never be printed.

To: "letters" <mail>
Subject: Hegelian Dialectic
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:37:25 +0200

Dear Editor

Magnum March Trail Talk was a revelation in the subtleties of appeasement politics and the conniving tricks of the SAPS in trying to get firearm owners to back off. It´s the trap used to ensnare reasonable opposition. It's not going to work.

The SAPS have no intention of changing the FCA in any significant way and have said so and demonstrated this so many times it should be very apparent to anyone by now. The ideology of we can only talk to you if you agree with our point of view is pure Hegelian Dialectic, they are the
agent of change.

The simple answer is - prove your stance is valid and will reduce crime and the supply of guns to criminals as you claim and we are happy to talk to you on your terms. Until you do which you have not done we will not change our stance in the interests of all citizens safety and well-being.

As citizens with a deep concern for public safety we simply cannot condone the uninformed and potentially life threatening social experimentation government is conducting based on the pressure of single interest groups promoting hatred and fear of firearms. Nor will we agree to accept such conditions as the only avenue of negotiation.

xxxx
"Two memorials remain today at Thermoplylae. Upon the modern one is engraved his response to Xerxes' demand that the Spartans lay down their arms. Leonidas' reply was two words, Molon Labe. 'Come and get them'."
crimefree
 
Posts: 122
Joined: Fri, 2006-02-03 09:26
Location: Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

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