New FireArm Application

Discuss the good and the bad of licencing and re-licencing your firearms

New FireArm Application

Postby Patrick » Sun, 2009-09-27 17:55

Correct me if I’m wrong but I just don’t understand why the registration system works from back to front, they first process everything as if your licence was approved then right at the end they stamp accepted or declined? Why don’t they first review your motivation if that passes move it to the next department which has the second fastest turnaround time, and so on.

But anyways I know applying for a new application takes forever, but I was hoping that with a few posts we could sort of get an indication as to how "quickly" one can get a licence, what the average waiting period and what’s the longest one should wait for a new firearm licence.

Application date: June 2008 (16 month waiting)
Date on system: March 2009 (7 month waiting)

I’d appreciate it if everyone could try and post how long it took to get their licences so that we could have some sort of indication as to what’s going on.
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Postby GJV » Tue, 2009-10-06 21:03

The replies to this site seems a little slow, so here's my contribution.

Submitted my new application around December 2007. Only received by Pretoria CFR in April 2008. Reason given to me is that the application goes from local police station to (in my case) Cape Town Central and then to Provincial and only then to CFR. [5 MONTHS]

Followed up frequently (as in every 3-4 weeks) and it was constantly in "quality control" or "in consideration". Lost my patience some time around November 2008 and took it up with some non-call-centre people in CFR who I could converse with and who appeared to have clout with the quality control area. Sent a fax of complaint re the delay and things seemed to happen again.

Approved in March 2009 [16 MONTHS] - but took another 2 months for the card to finally arrive so that I could get the firearm in my hands.

Check out the following link for similar stories:
viewtopic.php?t=1456&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=90

Good luck!
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Postby GJV » Tue, 2009-10-06 21:07

PS I see you are from Pretoria. I am originally from there. Boy do I miss the more relaxed gun culture in PTA (or at least it was when I left in 1996). There are only a handful of shooting sites in CT, and all of them more than 35 minutes from my front door.

I never had to drive far in PTA to get to an outdoor range, where you could really let your hair down. The 12 guage can be a great stress reliever when using suitable targets....
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Postby wrm » Wed, 2009-10-07 10:54

If you think that CFR is trying to process as many applications as quickly as possible, you are of course right -- there are better ways than what they're currently doing.

But why would you think that CFR is actually trying to be efficient? A guy had to kill himself to draw attention to how inefficient Home Affairs is... CFR is no different.

The first bit of my story is posted elsewhere, but basically, apps went in more than a year ago. I spoke to a Captain Fourie yesterday, he kicked some arse and actually called me back and told me who I should be calling today and tomorrow to walk the apps through the system.

Seems it's the only way.
[x]No Guns [x]No Rights [x]No Future [x]No Way
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Postby Len B » Wed, 2009-10-07 11:42

Wrm

I am new on the forum. This Capt Fourie. Where does he fit in? I am going to hand in an new application tomorrow and would like to know who the people is n the Western Cape to speak to.

Regards

Len
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Postby Patrick » Wed, 2009-10-07 11:50

Well you let us know how that turns out, ive heard those days are over.
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Postby wrm » Wed, 2009-10-07 12:00

Captain Fourie is at the verification (AVS) section of CFR Pretoria.

1. Deal with your local DFO. In Bellville, this is Inspector Groenewald, and while I find it difficult to call anyone involved in firearm licencing a good guy, Inspector Groenewald is one of the good guys, in that he puts in extra effort to get the job done.

2. From there it goes to Provincial. 021 950 1383. They tend to sit on things, so you have to make sure they know you know they're slowing down the process. When they send it to CFR, ask who you need to speak to, when, at CFR.

3. Once it gets to CFR, well... things change all the time, so ask lots of questions. Ask to speak to whoever deals with Western Cape new applications. Ask him / her where / why / what / by when.

Then it goes back to Provincial and then back to local.

Good luck.
[x]No Guns [x]No Rights [x]No Future [x]No Way
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Postby Len B » Wed, 2009-10-07 12:09

Thanks W

One more question. Do you know who handles the Section 21 Temporary Permit applications?

Len
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Re: New FireArm Application

Postby crimefree » Thu, 2009-10-15 10:04

Patrick wrote:Correct me if I’m wrong but I just don’t understand why the registration system works from back to front, they first process everything as if your licence was approved then right at the end they stamp accepted or declined? Why don’t they first review your motivation if that passes move it to the next department which has the second fastest turnaround time, and so on.


SAGA is looking for evidence of delayed applications 6mths and longer please contact SAGA if you can help. <saga@iafrica.com>

The registration system works in exactly the same way the FCA was designed. To make it as difficult as possible to obtain a licence. That means time, money, patience and a willingness to fight the system even if the licence is refused - more money, time and patience.

The reverse system is to involve any applicant with as much expense as possible first. Such that if a licence is refused (very good chance) that person will lose money and be bitter bent and twisted enough never to want to obtain a firearm because if it.

But I am sure you will meet plenty of misguided firearm owners who think the FCA serves some crime fighting purpose, to keep firearm owners "responsible" or prevent them from supplying criminals guns. All the FCA needs is some fixing..... When I ask what needs fixing and how they have no answer.

But silence is acceptance and judging from firearm owners the vast majority of the 50% or less remaining simply don't care. They can still shoot and they still have their guns, what's the problem?

As Winston Churchill said, they are feeding the crocodile in the hopes they will be the last eaten.
"Two memorials remain today at Thermoplylae. Upon the modern one is engraved his response to Xerxes' demand that the Spartans lay down their arms. Leonidas' reply was two words, Molon Labe. 'Come and get them'."
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Postby Patrick » Thu, 2009-10-15 10:24

Thanks, what exactly classifies as evidence?
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Postby GOSA » Thu, 2009-10-15 10:31

From SAGA:

Dear Network Member,
Thank you to all those who have submitted details of long delays with competency certificates and licences. We are now working through the documents.


We are still gathering evidence, so if not yet done and this applies to you, please send in your details as soon as possible.


Thank you.



EVIDENCE REQUIRED


If you or a reliable friend/colleague has had to wait 12 months or longer for the approval of a competency certificate or firearm licence, we would like to have the following details to help us amass evidence for a possible court case relating to poor service from the SAPS/CFR.


NB: Unless we ask for and obtain your permission to do otherwise, your personal details will be held in strict confidence and will be used only to build impersonal bulk statistics.


Please email the following details to saga (at) saga.org.za


Surname and initials:
Identity Number:
Type of Application (Competency certificate or licence type, i.e rifle, handgun, shotgun):
Date of Application:
Place of Application:
Date received, or if application is still outstanding:
Do you have a good record of having made follow-up calls and/or written correspondences?: Yes or No
Have you sought assistance from the President’s Call Centre? (See below): Yes or No

PRESIDENTIAL ASSISTANCE

President Zuma’s Help Hot Line number is 17737. Keep a note of that number and use it when your efforts to get answers from a government department or organ of state have been frustrated by ignorance/ incompetence or a brick wall. There are no guarantees, but when all else fails, it is worth a shot.

Issued: Wednesday 14 October 2009 at 11:55
What have YOU done for YOUR rights today?
GOSA
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Postby crimefree » Thu, 2009-10-15 10:50

Patrick wrote:Thanks, what exactly classifies as evidence?


SAGA requested licence or competency certificate delay of 12 months or more. But I am going to say that 6 months is just as unacceptable. If SAGA is stupid enough to tell anyone who has waited 6 months that this is not what they want then good luck to them.

I suspect SAGA will challenge this under the "just administration Act" if they get enough evidence and 6 months is totally unacceptable.

NOTE it depends on SAGA obtaining evidence and this is totally up to firearm owners who have applied and are waiting or had a long delay which they have information of ie date of application and date approved. Not just those currently waiting.

It's up to firearm owners now.

SAGA request has been posted, thanks W
"Two memorials remain today at Thermoplylae. Upon the modern one is engraved his response to Xerxes' demand that the Spartans lay down their arms. Leonidas' reply was two words, Molon Labe. 'Come and get them'."
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Postby Patrick » Thu, 2009-10-15 11:32

Great thanks guys I will send my info ASAP, I called the Firearms centre yesterday and they told me (after waiting since 2008) my application is at CRC (finger prints) and will take another 7 months to get out of there!!!!

This really is unaceptable
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Postby Patrick » Fri, 2010-01-15 11:37

ARRRRGGGGG!!!
Last edited by Patrick on Fri, 2010-01-15 12:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Patrick » Fri, 2010-01-15 11:44

This is going absolutely nowhere!

How can this be acceptable, surly there is millions of court cases against the government they are waiting our money in calls, time and application fees, and so on and so on!

They can either give me a licence or not! My licence has been at CRC(criminal record centre) for competency for 6 months now, when I first called it was only going to take 2 months it goes up all the time, now they are telling me up to 8 months followed by its hard to say!?! With no feedback. This is ridiculas. HOW CAN IT TAKE SO LONG!!!!! HOW !?!

I applied in 06/2008 it is now 01/2010 and they can even tell me when I’m getting competency? I was told to contact Superintendant Morkel but no answer ever, Zumas line doesn’t pick up either.

I’m ready a few stories of people getting licences in 6 or 8 months? I just don’t understand it where is the order, what about the guys that have queued first???

I’ve sent complaints (no replies) and filled out every petition or such that I can find.

Does anybody know of anymore, anyone that is fighting court cases that need evidence/support, what more can I do???

All in all my application has taken 19 months since I handed it in at Lyttelton and i havent even recieved my competency!?!
Patrick
 
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